The Mahler Problem
We're playing Mahler's ginormous 9th Symphony this week with one of my favorite guest conductors, Mark Wigglesworth. Which is interesting, because it's entirely possible that you could be a regular visitor to the Minnesota Orchestra web site, could even be planning to attend this concert, and be unaware that there's any Mahler on the program.
The headline on the website for this concert is "Schubert's Unfinished Symphony," which is, to be fair, also on the program. The same description appears on the concert tickets themselves. The thing is, the Schubert, lovely though it is, is a 20-minute appetizer, while the Mahler is a 90-minute magnum opus, so it might seem a bit odd for our marketing department to be highlighting what is unquestionably the less significant work. But there's a reason that they do it, and it's one that musicians often avoid talking about: the concertgoing public just doesn't seem to like Mahler.
I should qualify that right off the bat by saying that, clearly, many people do like Mahler, and several thousand people will be joining us for the concerts this week to prove it. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if our overall ticket sales this week are among our lowest totals of the season. Past experiences with Mahler, in fact, almost guarantee it. And this isn't just a Minnesota problem - audiences across America are decidedly less enthusiastic about Mahler than we musicians are.
So what's the problem here? Mahler's symphonies have been a part of the standard orchestral repertoire for the better part of a century now, so it can hardly be a lack of familiarity that keeps audiences at bay. If anything, I get the sense that our audiences know exactly what a Mahler symphony is, and that it's that knowledge that keeps them away. A couple of years back, our piccolo player and I were talking about Mahler's 5th symphony at a Hallowe'en party (yes, we're huge dorks,) and her husband disgustedly broke into the conversation to explain, in great detail, that only musicians like Mahler, and that people who have to listen to it (rather than playing it) generally hate the experience.
And the thing is, he may not be wrong about that. There's no question that Mahler is generally a lot of fun to play, especially if you're lucky enough to play it with a really good orchestra, under a really great conductor. The music is hugely challenging for every instrument in the orchestra, contains plenty of melodic content for everyone, fits together like the world's most complex jigsaw puzzle, and is just incredibly visceral and raw in it's style. If playing Mozart is like baseball, all clean lines and perfect structure, playing Mahler is like rugby. It's brutal and draining and everyone seems to be piling onto everyone else at exactly the same time, but damn, it's exciting.
Of course, Mahler is brutal and draining for audiences as well. And on top of that, Mahler symphonies are loooooooooong. The one we're playing this week is 90 minutes, which isn't at all unusual for him. I think his shortest symphony is an hour, which is as long as Beethoven's longest. And when you consider that, in most Mahler symphonies, the drama, the pathos, the agony, and the navel-gazing start right off the top and almost never ratchet down, it's asking a lot of an audience. Most people aren't in the mood for that sort of thing very often, and a fair number of people never are. It's like asking people how they feel about Ulysses. Most will allow that it's a great work of literature, but they're not going to make an attempt to read it very often, because who has that kind of energy?
I strongly suspect that a lot of concertgoers get turned off to Mahler after wandering into a performance of one of his bigger works (the 5th, the 6th, the 9th, etc.) unaware of what they were in for. Mahler isn't a composer you want catching you off guard. If you're just looking for a nice, relaxing evening out, and you suddenly find yourself being assaulted by all the personal demons of a 150-year-old manic depressive Austrian in musical form, you're not in for a good night. It'd be like intending to spend a quiet night at the movies and wandering into Letters From Iwo Jima. Even though you recognize that it's an impressive work of art, it's not even remotely what you were looking for.
The reality is, too, that a number of Mahler's symphonies are arguably longer and more over-the-top than they needed to be. It's almost impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this, however, because the people who love Mahler really love Mahler. And in the same way that people who love, say, Lord of the Rings, are not willing to hear a single word said against it, Mahlerians are prone to fly into fits of righteousness if anyone so much as suggests that, really, the first movement of the 9th does drag on a bit. So there again, we run the risk of alienating audiences who, encountering a passionate fan of Mahler, are made to feel as if they are just too dumb or impatient to understand the attraction.
All that having been said, a lot of Mahler's music is great stuff, and we're really not going to stop playing it anytime soon, much as our marketing department might like us to. So I'm curious to hear from our readers on the subject. Do you like Mahler? Hate him? Feel confused by him? Does seeing his name on a concert program make you less likely to buy a ticket? And if so, how did that aversion get started? Enquiring musicians (and marketers) worldwide want to know...
The headline on the website for this concert is "Schubert's Unfinished Symphony," which is, to be fair, also on the program. The same description appears on the concert tickets themselves. The thing is, the Schubert, lovely though it is, is a 20-minute appetizer, while the Mahler is a 90-minute magnum opus, so it might seem a bit odd for our marketing department to be highlighting what is unquestionably the less significant work. But there's a reason that they do it, and it's one that musicians often avoid talking about: the concertgoing public just doesn't seem to like Mahler.
I should qualify that right off the bat by saying that, clearly, many people do like Mahler, and several thousand people will be joining us for the concerts this week to prove it. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if our overall ticket sales this week are among our lowest totals of the season. Past experiences with Mahler, in fact, almost guarantee it. And this isn't just a Minnesota problem - audiences across America are decidedly less enthusiastic about Mahler than we musicians are.
So what's the problem here? Mahler's symphonies have been a part of the standard orchestral repertoire for the better part of a century now, so it can hardly be a lack of familiarity that keeps audiences at bay. If anything, I get the sense that our audiences know exactly what a Mahler symphony is, and that it's that knowledge that keeps them away. A couple of years back, our piccolo player and I were talking about Mahler's 5th symphony at a Hallowe'en party (yes, we're huge dorks,) and her husband disgustedly broke into the conversation to explain, in great detail, that only musicians like Mahler, and that people who have to listen to it (rather than playing it) generally hate the experience.
And the thing is, he may not be wrong about that. There's no question that Mahler is generally a lot of fun to play, especially if you're lucky enough to play it with a really good orchestra, under a really great conductor. The music is hugely challenging for every instrument in the orchestra, contains plenty of melodic content for everyone, fits together like the world's most complex jigsaw puzzle, and is just incredibly visceral and raw in it's style. If playing Mozart is like baseball, all clean lines and perfect structure, playing Mahler is like rugby. It's brutal and draining and everyone seems to be piling onto everyone else at exactly the same time, but damn, it's exciting.
Of course, Mahler is brutal and draining for audiences as well. And on top of that, Mahler symphonies are loooooooooong. The one we're playing this week is 90 minutes, which isn't at all unusual for him. I think his shortest symphony is an hour, which is as long as Beethoven's longest. And when you consider that, in most Mahler symphonies, the drama, the pathos, the agony, and the navel-gazing start right off the top and almost never ratchet down, it's asking a lot of an audience. Most people aren't in the mood for that sort of thing very often, and a fair number of people never are. It's like asking people how they feel about Ulysses. Most will allow that it's a great work of literature, but they're not going to make an attempt to read it very often, because who has that kind of energy?
I strongly suspect that a lot of concertgoers get turned off to Mahler after wandering into a performance of one of his bigger works (the 5th, the 6th, the 9th, etc.) unaware of what they were in for. Mahler isn't a composer you want catching you off guard. If you're just looking for a nice, relaxing evening out, and you suddenly find yourself being assaulted by all the personal demons of a 150-year-old manic depressive Austrian in musical form, you're not in for a good night. It'd be like intending to spend a quiet night at the movies and wandering into Letters From Iwo Jima. Even though you recognize that it's an impressive work of art, it's not even remotely what you were looking for.
The reality is, too, that a number of Mahler's symphonies are arguably longer and more over-the-top than they needed to be. It's almost impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this, however, because the people who love Mahler really love Mahler. And in the same way that people who love, say, Lord of the Rings, are not willing to hear a single word said against it, Mahlerians are prone to fly into fits of righteousness if anyone so much as suggests that, really, the first movement of the 9th does drag on a bit. So there again, we run the risk of alienating audiences who, encountering a passionate fan of Mahler, are made to feel as if they are just too dumb or impatient to understand the attraction.
All that having been said, a lot of Mahler's music is great stuff, and we're really not going to stop playing it anytime soon, much as our marketing department might like us to. So I'm curious to hear from our readers on the subject. Do you like Mahler? Hate him? Feel confused by him? Does seeing his name on a concert program make you less likely to buy a ticket? And if so, how did that aversion get started? Enquiring musicians (and marketers) worldwide want to know...
Labels: composers, marketing, the long-suffering audience



12 Comments:
When I was in college, I wasn't familiar with Mahler. Several of my friends, though, kept telling me I had to hear him, that I'd fall deeply in love with his music. Then a professor played a section of the 8th Symphony, and I just didn't get it. It was loud, long and overwhelming. I immediately developed a distaste for Mahler.
Then later on, I had the opportunity to sing the 3rd Symphony. The first few movements were fun and all (love the circus!), but I was completely undone by the last movement. I teared up every performance. I just couldn't get enough.
I think you're right - Mahler is so big and overwhelming, you need to be in the right mood or at least prepared to hear him. For me, when I'm in the mood for Mahler, nothing else suffices. But if I'm not prepared to go there, I feel like I'm in a tiny life raft set adrift in a gigantic ocean, with no land in sight. Sure, the sunsets are gorgeous, but I have nothing to anchor to.
What was that Woody Allen movie where he takes his date out to a performance of Mahler's 9th, and she says the second and third movements were nice, but the fourth movement went on too long?
I'm one of those Mahler diehards you talk about, and I'll resist taking the bait about that first movement. But I will say that hearing the big, draining, epic works (not just Mahler's) in the concert hall is one of the thrills of live music that you can't get anywhere else, and that's why some of us keep coming back.
It has been my usual choice to change my subscription tickets for another show any time Mahler is on the program (unless the other selections are must-hear). He's just too much; overlong epic messes. While the Minnesota Orchestra has done a stellar job of performing his music at the Mahler shows I've attended, it usually isn't enough to rise above the chore that sitting through his works feels like.
allthingsspring siad it better than I could. I've tried to like Mahler but the word that comes to mind when I think of his music is "ponderous."
Well, I've been sitting here listening to the live steam on MPR, feeding our 10 week old baby, he'd been terribly fussy tonight, but he's suddenly finally lights out. So Mahler either bored him to sleep, or he'd rather sleep than listen to Mahler, I'm not sure which. :)
Here's my question: is part of some people's aversion to Mahler in any way connected to our fast-paced society, where immediate gratification rules? Because with Mahler, as in a good deal of great art, the gratification is very much delayed!
I love listening to Mahler's music. I rarely miss these events, and this week was no exception. I attended tonight's (Friday) concert, and was astonished at the level of playing. Many of the musicians appeared visibly drained, but happy. Mahler is probably the one composer I can most identify with - I suspect there are some facets of my personality that are extremely close to what Mahler had going inside him.
I did find it a bit odd, and even somewhat disrespectful to the musicians and audience to be billing the "Unfinished". It's obvious that the marketing department was trying to squeeze out a few more sales - but any new, unsuspecting listeners that bought a ticket are likely to be so turned off by the experience that they never return again.
I'm 38, and I didn't start listening and likely Mahler symphonies until I was 30. From a listeners perspective, I think you really have to chip away at these pieces - you just can't grab a stack of Mahler symphony recordings and decide one day to listen to them all and get to know them. There is too much there and it's too daunting of a task.
Having listened to #9 tonight, I'm probably not going to be able to listen to it again for a couple of years. I'm one of those people that believes a Mahler symphony requires a certain state of mind - you have to be ready to hear it, and willing to give something of yourself. After hearing most of them (especially #3, #2, #9) I really do feel like I've given something or even exposed something of myself. These things may at times be uplifting experiences, but they are never joyous - it's not like listening to Dvorak's "Carnival" Overture. And so for those looking for a fun, entertaining evening at the symphony these Mahler symphonies will not do. All told, these works require the most experienced and attentive listeners, and on any given night how many of those people are there? I think most people just want to have fun - I may qualify as a nerd for actually preferring a long evening of intellectualism through Mahler, but so be it.
The attendance a couple of years ago for #6 with Conlon was bleak, somewhat better for Litton's 3 a few years ago. I remember being in the audience for #3 with Oue conducting around 8 years ago with vast acreage of empty seats (it was a dreaded Wed. evening concert too boot) but this week it appears to be much better than I would have expected. Nevertheless, unless it's #1-2, and possibly 4-5, I wouldn't ever count on steady attendance.
At any rate, thanks for a wonderful concert. The playing tonight was stunning all evening long, and I am truly grateful.
In response to Sarah's question, at least for my own opinion, the pace of modern society or a desire for instant gratification is really not a factor. I'm willing to guess that a typical Classical music lover would rate at the far end of the bell curve of patience. Classical music is large, long, and intricate by its nature, as opposed to pop music. A composition should take as long as it takes to tell the story, to craft the edifice, to let the musical ideas blossom to their natural conclusion (in fact there are a some compositions where I am annoyed when they are performed too quickly, or that the composer didn't linger long enough). Good music, like good books, good cinema, good stories, takes the time needed, but if it strays too long in a passage here, a scene there, it can be forgiven if the work itself is great. But even my patience has its limits. Mahler comes off as a composer in great need of an editor. There are some simply fantastic musical ideas that he came up with, but he didn't seem to give a care to pacing or brevity, and the audience's appreciation suffers from too much wallowing. His symphonies seem 20 minutes too long. A composition can be long if the musical narrative moves along and carries the audience with it. Time flies when you're having fun. For me, Mahler is exhausting, and the gratification, delayed or not, doesn't offset the price.
My parents were adamant -- Mahler is 20th century music and therefore junk. Of course, they thought the same thing about the Beatles and the Rolling Stones but that's another story. So, I didn't hear Mahler until college, and it was quite an introduction.
I was studying music in Vienna. My first concert that fall was the Vienna Philharmonic with Bernstein conducting Mahler's 7th. It was sold out. We "bribed" a porter for standing-room-only tickets and got in after standing over an hour in line to get into the Musikverein. I wasn't thinking about the Mahler symphony -- I wanted to see Bernstein in person and I'd heard that he had a superb relationship with the Vienna Philharmonic. We took turns holding our place in the standing room section and sitting down until the concert began. Bernstein was much, much shorter than expected -- I thought such a giant of American music would truly be a physical giant but he wasn't. The Mahler, however, was a giant...and I loved it from the first notes. I especially love the scherzo of that symphony. And we stood through the entire concert without intermission -- 80 minutes of glorious music plus bow after bow until Bernstein and the orchestra played the finale again. It was a peak experience. And I couldn't have been more pleased that my parents were such idiots....(smile)
Listening to Mahler takes concentration. His music has the effect of a spotlight shone into the dark corners of the listener's mind which can be an uncomfortable experience, but it can also feel like being one with the composer and the collective unconscious. I think those who have commented about concerts being an entertaining and relaxing night out have a valid point, though, about how Mahler would not please people of that persuasion. Which is sad, because Mahler's music also has moments of humor -- I'm thinking of the cowbells in the 7th, for example. I love to hear Mahler live in concert because his music brings out the best in orchestras and conductors. And I think Mahler is terribly misunderstood. His music doesn't require an editor but Wagner's does (in my humble opinion) and is a reflection of the times in which he lived. I think marketing departments in America need to remind listeners that Herr Mahler also worked at the NY Philharmonic for a year, didn't he? Or was it the MET?
Anyway, I think Mahler requires patience and a willingness to simply sit and listen with all one's heart and soul. I think it's a sad commentary on contemporary life that people seem to prefer life in soundbytes and in constant motion....
I loved the 9th this week -- bravo! The orchestra sounds just amazing. I also loved Conlon's 6th. And Osmo's 5th. And...you know, the Schubert was right on.
I'm on the fence about Mahler's symphonies, but I adore Bruckner's. However, I've read that nothing clears out an American concert hall faster than Bruckner. Too bad.
I'd like to point out that this perspective on audiences running away from a concert hall in which Mahler has been programmed is by no means universal.
In Chicago, Mahler's symphonies consistently bring huge crowds to Symphony Center, the Ravinia Festival , and Millennium Park. Last summer's audience for the Grant Park Orchestra's performance of Mahler 5 was the largest crowd for an all-classical program. Those numbers were topped only by the fantastically diverse group who came out to hear rock band the Decemberists perform alongside the orchestra.
Certain ensembles have a longer history of performing and recording Mahler than others have. Isn't it true that Osmo Vanska has only recently added Mahler symphonies to his repertoire? I'd like to suggest that an audience that is unfamiliar with a composer does not automatically dislike the composer. To assume otherwise is, as is unfortunately common in classical music artistic management, to underestimate the listeners' ears.
Certain ensembles have a longer history of performing and recording Mahler than others have. Isn't it true that Osmo Vanska has only recently added Mahler symphonies to his repertoire?
This is true, but the Minnesota Orchestra itself has as long a history with Mahler as any American orchestra - in fact, our band made the first-ever recording of Mahler's 1st symphony under Dmitri Mitropolous.
Most of the Mahler we play isn't done with Osmo on the podium since, as you say, it's not exactly his particular speciality. And you're certainly right that Chicago audiences seem to eat up Mahler. (They're also shockingly fond of Pierre Boulez's regular forays into modernist music. I've gotta start hanging around Chicago more...) But in most American cities, Mahler does tend to be a tough draw.
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